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Is there a satisfactory definition of holiness , as Euthyphro concludes Do either Plato or Socrates think there is ? What might this definition be

What is dear to the gods is pious " Euthyphro gives a general definition of piety . Euthyphro ends up going in circles as Socrates rebuts his definition of piety and ends up leaving because it is somewhat obvious that he does not clearly know

Socrates wonders whether the love of the gods is even relevant to the meaning of piety , so he asks if Is the pious loved by the

gods because it is pious , or is it pious because it is loved by the gods " This is a question about causality . On the one side are the gods , in the act of loving . On the other side is piety . Is piety caused by the loving of the gods , or is the love of the gods itself caused by the nature of piety In the former case , the pious is whatever the gods love , for whatever reason . Indeed , the gods must love things arbitrarily , for no reasons for if the gods love something for some good reason , then the nature of the thing makes it worthy of love and the gods must merely recognize the objective value of the thing . This is a question that becomes of increasing theological importance in the future . That is because it can be generalized into a question about the relation of all value

As for Plato , the stand that he takes is that God recognizes what is good and wants to do it because it is good , this posits the nature of value independent of Him , so that he must , and wishes to , conform Himself to it . This makes it sensible to praise and revere God 's goodness , but it also means that God is no longer the Creator of everything : standards of value stand above and beyond Him , outside of his control and creativity . This is actually what Plato thought . He thought that the Forms preexist the creative action of God , and provide the standard for it , in the Timaeus ?2 ) How can a citizen , how can this new kind of citizenship that Socrates is proposing in the Apology , how can any kind of citizenship be devoted just to private matters and not public

In the Apology , Socrates has shown that he is , by his own definition , a patriotic citizen who cares deeply about the good of his polis and one who consistently acts in what he sees as his city 's best interests but he has also shown also that , in light of his own definition of patriotism , HYPERLINK "http /www .stoa .org /projects /demos /selector ?key socrates greekEncoding " he must be regarded as a uniquely patriotic Athenian . Moreover , given the problematic current condition of the state , doing good ' means acting as a social critic and it meant questioning fundamental Athenian beliefs in conversations held in public and private spaces of the city

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